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Spotify’s staff typographer, Bianca Berning, sat down with Transform editor Jack Cousins at Paradigms brand summit to discuss life at Encore, Spotify’s in-house design system. The pair also chat about attitudes surrounding typography and advice for young typographers.

How did your decade at Dalton Maag, working for huge clients like Amazon, BBC and FedEx, impact the way you perceive type design?

It’s funny – when you work with big companies like that, you often work with very similar teams. You’re usually involved from the kick-off with both the brand and marketing teams, as well as the UI team, and there’s always this push and pull. I’ve seen it on every project: the marketing and brand people want something that really pops, while the UI team is thinking about accessibility.

It's important that there’s healthy negotiation. You support them through it, until you land on something that’s exciting for the brand but also works for the interface. I wouldn’t say I developed a formal philosophy from all of that work – it didn’t come naturally to me – but I learned a lot on the job about listening and letting people speak. That became my approach: sit back, let them do the talking and find the balance in the outcome.

Tell me a little bit about Encore. What’s your experience been like since working there?

It’s been really interesting because, in a way, I ended up becoming ‘the client’ myself. At Spotify, we developed a custom font in collaboration with a type foundry, Dinamo, and I was then the UI person pushing back on brand and creative decisions. It was fascinating to see how the internal processes work, compared to being an external foundry brought in for a short-term project. I got a front-row view of the behind-the-scenes mechanisms that I hadn’t experienced before.

We ultimately found a really good compromise, structuring things so that both the brand and the UI could coexist. That experience gave me a lot of insight into the unique challenges and opportunities of working in-house. There are only a handful of people in similar positions – dedicated, in-house type specialists – and it’s something that’s still surprisingly rare.

Type is often treated as a side project in bigger companies, even though it has so much potential to influence personality and expression in a product. Many people are juggling it alongside other responsibilities, which means innovation often gets pushed aside in favour of maintenance and bug fixes. At Encore, I’m able to focus on type as a priority, which is really exciting. It’s rare to have the space to explore what type can actually do beyond just supporting the product.

Do you think attitudes will change around typography to the point where more large companies will have a dedicated, in-house typographer?

Honestly, I don’t know – it’s a funny time in tech right now. A lot of designers – myself included – are unsure if their positions will survive the rise of AI, so we are looking at what we – as designers – can bring to the table and lean into those distinctly human skills. The focus is shifting away from execution and toward innovation.

There’s definitely a place for people who are highly skilled and experienced in their craft, whether that’s typography, motion, audio or something else. And I think smart companies understand that and invest in that human touch.

What’s your favourite project been since starting at Spotify?

It has to be the new typeface, Spotify Mix, which launched in May 2024. I’m quite a technical person – I’ve been involved in things like the Web Fonts Working Group and other technical committees – so I really appreciate digging into the technical side of things. I learn something new every day, which makes the work very rewarding.

But this project was also just a really nice moment in terms of collaboration. Brand, the design systems team and visual merchandising – the team behind the playlist covers you see across Spotify – all worked closely together. It felt like a rare moment where everyone got what they wanted, without the usual compromises. And the reception was great. I’ve seen brands announce new typefaces and people just leave the platform, but that didn’t happen for us, which made me really happy.

How do typographic choices evolve when designing for global audiences, as culture changes and accessibility becomes more important?

I think a lot of typography has become somewhat ‘washed down’ as awareness around accessibility has grown. For example, with users who have low vision, we rely on extensive user testing to draw conclusions, and often we assign specific type genres to specific use cases. A humanist letterform, for instance, tends to be more legible than a grotesque one. So, if a brand comes to you and asks for a font that’s highly accessible, a humanist form is often the safest choice.

But that’s not the only solution. There are many subtle ways to make type accessible beyond just following what user testing has shown to work best. I think it’s important to explore uncharted territory, experiment with different forms and then test whether they work.

You also guide students and emerging professionals entering the world of type design. What’s one thing a budding typographer should know about the industry?

One thing I’ve learned from my own career is the value of patience. When I was starting out, I wanted to dive in and do everything immediately, but a lot of learning comes from sitting with ideas and exploring related topics. I find inspiration in looking – through books, signage and real-world examples – more than just producing work. Expanding your perspective and absorbing the work of others helps you understand type design more deeply and develop your own voice.