Five minutes with Six Cinquième

Transform magazine caught up with Six Cinquième’s founders, Ash Phillips and Miro LaFlaga, at Brand New conference in Pittsburgh, PA. Fresh from giving a talk at the event, the pair discuss how their agency has evolved, the design scene in Montreal and the future of inclusive design.

How did you initially envision Six Cinquième as an agency, and how did it end up evolving over time?

Miro: When we started, we didn't really have a compass, per se. We didn't really know what we were doing, so the only thing we could do was look at other agencies. In Montreal, there's a tonne of amazing studios and agencies, like Sid Lee and Cossette. We were just looking at them, seeing how they operate, and thinking, “That's what we need to aspire to be.” We pushed ourselves, but along the way we realised that's not for us.

It was at that moment that Ash and I sat back and realised there might be other ways of doing it, and that's when I started looking at other creatives and people who were breaking the mould. We have a good friend named Stanley, and he always says something very interesting. He'll talk about someone like Kanye West, for example, and say that great artists follow their own path. We like them because they're the ones saying, “I'm doing it my own way,” while everyone else is telling them no.

So it made me think: why are we trying to do it a certain way? Why can't we just follow our own path? We really started to take that in, and it gave us a lot of confidence to do things our own way.

 

Now that you’ve taken that path, how do you perceive yourselves and the agency?

Ash: How we perceive ourselves now is a lot more fluid, open and flexible. We're more open to seeing whatever happens and embracing the unknown, and not being so attached to an aspiration or an ideal. Yes, we have goals, aspirations and a vision for the future, but I think we're more open to things evolving and shifting, and to letting go of some of the expectations we might have had for ourselves – and being okay with that, not seeing it as a sign of failure but rather as a sign of evolution. We're open to evolving, changing our minds about things and shifting how we want to approach our work.

This has of course led you to working on projects you’re more passionate about. What’s both of your favourite projects you’ve worked on over the past five years, and why?

Miro: Personally, I’d say it’s the In Perspectives project we were just talking about on stage. The reason we like it is because it touched on so many things we’re really passionate about – community, social impact, design, speaking with people. As part of that, we were facilitating workshops, bringing designers and everyday people together to talk about how design impacts their lives, and then designing a whole manual and making sure the data was presented in a way that visually made sense so people could actually absorb it. There was videography, there was photography – just so many different elements. And then we launched the project at City Hall.

So I think that’s my favourite project because it challenged us to go outside the norm. It’s not a branding project, it’s not a strategy project, but it has all of those different components. The project came about because of our curiosity; we saw an open call that wasn’t targeted towards a traditional design agency and we were just like, yo, I think we could pitch this to them – and it made sense. So I’d say that’s my favourite project right now.

Ash: It’s definitely the project that has left the biggest impact on us. All the projects we work on are impactful because the clients are striving for that, but I think what makes this one special is that it came 100% from us. Although it’s a collaboration with the city and with another creative agency called Never Was Average, we came together to create something that was in our image – something we really wanted to do.

What impact has In Perspectives had since its launch?

Miro: I think it’s really having an impact in terms of sparking conversation. A lot of people are curious about it, and I think it’s changing how people perceive design as well. Even with the Bureau of Design – they’re the ones who commissioned the project – they were very interested in how we view design, because we don’t see design as just one thing, like a pretty image. That’s not what design is to us. Design is about solving a problem.

And I think that conversation has really begun – particularly around how certain design choices impact certain communities. There’s an awareness growing, a conversation happening there. One of the main things that initially sparked the dialogue between us and Never Was Average about this project was the idea that when you go into a specific area and see a basketball court or whatever it may be, do the people living there actually have a say in what’s in their community? Do we even know if it’s something they want?

In Montreal right now, there’s a big conflict around the bicycle lanes. They’re installing a lot of them, but with so much construction, you can’t park anywhere, so it’s causing a lot of debate. So I’d hope there’s more conversation around this idea of: before we implement these design choices, let’s make sure it’s something people actually want, rather than imposing it on them. Because you create these spaces, these things, and then people don’t feel a sense of ownership over them – they’re like, “I didn’t ask for this; I don’t even know what this is for.”

Ash: I think there’s also a sense that the feedback we’ve received shows it’s a long-overdue conversation. We presented it and talked about it at a conference in Montreal called Forum, and we got so much positive feedback. People were saying it’s refreshing that we’re finally discussing these issues and having these conversations. So, part of what makes it so impactful is that it’s both new and refreshing, but also something we’ve known is needed for a while – it just hasn’t been on everyone’s radar until now.

All image credits: Sofia Negron

Tell me about the design scene more broadly in Montreal? How does it differ from Toronto or Vancouver?

Ash: To be honest, I would say that the design scene feels kind of similar all over Canada – there’s a certain homogeneity to it. But there’s starting to be a bit more openness, a bit more awareness, a growing sense of self-awareness across the industry. I think a lot of that is happening in Montreal because of the types of projects we’re putting forward and similar initiatives – it’s sparking conversations and reflection within the community.

Miro: Well, just to give some context – Montreal is a relatively small city in the province of Quebec. It’s very much an international city in terms of culture, food and art. A lot of artists used to come to Montreal to set up and practise because the cost of living was so low. When you walk through the city, you really feel its artistic energy.

The challenge, though, is that Montreal exists within the province of Quebec, which is quite conservative in its views. There’s a strong emphasis on protecting the French language at all costs, and some issues like systemic racism are often denied. So, if you speak other languages or have signage in different languages, it causes problems. There’s a bit of a clash between the city itself, which is diverse and multicultural, and the wider province, where the perspective is more conservative.

That diversity, however, has a huge impact on our design scene. I personally believe some of the best studios come from Montreal. There are so many amazing small studios here, and I think it’s because the city still values artistic expression. By contrast, a city like Toronto is more corporate-driven. There’s nothing wrong with that, but you can see it in the design language – it feels business-focused. In Montreal, there’s a very intentional artistry in how we approach design and how studios position themselves. That makes the city unique.

So, if you’re a creative person or looking for inspiration, I’d highly suggest visiting Montreal at least once. You’ll be mesmerised by the food, the cultures and the energy. You could walk down a street and go from a Haitian restaurant to a Persian restaurant to a Greek restaurant. That multicultural richness is what truly makes Montreal so distinctive.

What’s the future of inclusive design? Has recent political change in the US made you reassess its direction of travel in North America more broadly?

Ash: I think inclusive design is going to become even more important in the future. Statistics from Statistique Canada show that the population is becoming increasingly diverse – people no longer look like what Canadians did a hundred years ago. We’re seeing immigration from all over the world, and that diversity continues to grow.

That raises important questions: do you truly understand the audiences you’re designing or advertising for? Do you have a deep understanding of the different cultures and the nuances of the human experiences that people bring to the Canadian landscape? Designers need a stronger awareness and understanding of these experiences.

For that reason, the conversation around inclusive design is critical. Some might say we’re having it a little early; others might argue it’s already too late. But it will only become more important as the landscape changes. The world is evolving, and design practices need to evolve alongside it to reflect what the future will look like.